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PleasrDAO: Collecting Internet Culture, Acquiring the Wu Tang Clan Album, Snowden & Doge NFT, and Art DAO Operations

Nov 25, 2021 ·

By Tom Shaughnessy

The Delphi Podcast Host and GP of Delphi Ventures Tom Shaughnessy sits down with members of PleasrDAO Jamis (Chief Pleasing Officer), Andy (founder of Fractional), and gmoney (INFINFT Partner). PleasrDAO is a collective focused on acquiring culturally significant art pieces, creating value from the essence of the pieces and sharing them with the community. Topics discussed include the origins of PleasrDAO, war stories behind significant art pieces, challenges with operating an art DAO, and much more! 

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01:00 • Tom

Welcome back to the podcast. I’m one of your hosts, Tom Shaughnessy. I help Delphi Ventures today. I’m thrilled to have on the PleasrDAO squad. I have Jamis Andy and G money. I’ll give some brief interest for them. James is the chief pleasing officer PleasrDAO, former machine learning engineer, and he’s also a founding partner of perceptive capital. Andy is the founder of fractional and NFT fractionalization platform. We are a blessed investors. We’re thrilled to be along for this journey, and G money. If you don’t know, gee, it would be weird at this point, but quite the NFT King, helps run our NFT fund with us. So I’m thrilled to have everyone on. Thanks. 


01:40 • Jamis
Yeah. Thanks for having me very happy to be here, listening to this podcast for a very long time. 


01:47 • Tom
I’m glad. I’m glad. Well, let’s dive into pleasr. Dad who wants to give the elevator pitch? What exactly is PleasrDAO? 


01:54 • Jamis
I guess I can take that. I mean, it’s always evolving. I think that we’re looking to build the world’s largest on chain cultural collective. I think we’ve all seen this revolution of culture just in flowing into the Ethereum ecosystem and the blockchain, because there’s so many, I think that, we just want to build something that’s a massive institution that will ultimately be available to the entire world. Do either of you have any more to add to that? I’m sure you guys have your own opinions. 


02:24 • Andy
Yeah. A big part of the like pitch of booster tattoos, just that we’re art appreciators we really enjoy the stuff that we have a chance to buy it. Just, I think we really take very seriously our position of, being able to be somewhat curators and collectors, and really want to make sure that we’re pushing everything forward in positive ways. 


02:53 • Tom
About you. What about you? How’d you get started? 


02:56 • Andy
The only thing I’d add to that is like, we’re just trying to cool. 


02:59 • Gmoney
The only thing I’d add to that is like, we’re just trying to cool. Stuff, right? Like, we find pieces that we like, and we’re like, yeah, let’s buy it. Right. It’s literally, I, I always have had, have said this, like throughout, every time we’re bidding on something it’s like, I think like while we bid on something is my favorite time in crypto because like the entire like room just goes nuts. While we’re actually like in the middle of an auction and like that kind of energy, you just don’t see in that many places. 


03:30 • Jamis
Yeah. I mean, our latest motto that’s been circulating the chat is just simply do cool shit. I think we want to really, we really want, we want to push like the bleeding edge of what is happening. Right? These NFT systems are being built in front of our eyes. I think we want to participate in all of them and we’re always fans of having a charitable component integrated. 


03:54 • Tom
So, so what would you guys say, like the Genesis of PleasrDAO was it just a group of people who wanted to kind of pull money to buy art or was there like a grand plan from the get go, or did this kind of just bubble up from something that you guys thought was needed? 


04:07 • Jamis
Yeah. I mean, I can give of background there. That was a very exciting Friday. I, yeah, I was following Layton cusecs tweets because he was going to throw a New York city unisocks party. Once unisocks crossed a hundred thousand dollars, if you’re not familiar with unisocks, it was just an experiment from uniswap, where they created 500 physical socks. They mentioned one token per pair of socks, paired it with Ethereum and then let the market price that the market kind of, do price discovery. It was around $50. It was around $70, went down to $20 and then eventually it kind of memetic escape, velocity, and somewhere around December late and was saying December of 2020. He was saying, I’m going to throw a unisex party in New York city. And that happened last month. I turned on tweet notifications from them and we all knew people pleasr from DeFi summer. 


05:07 • Jamis
She kind of defined the whole spiritual moment. That was defi summer. She did a lot of the art for a lot of protocols. You saw V3 was happening this monumental occasion, and she was the one who was doing the NFT, I think it resonated with a lot of, kind of the OG Defi crowd. I responded to a tweet from Leighton that said he wants to form a DAO to buy Emily’s or pplpleasers piece? And I had met Andy through one way or another, actually in blue Kirby’s slack channel. I had also met blue Kirby if you’re familiar with him. Those were the first two people I reached out to them. We started a Twitter DM and we’re like, should do it. Let’s do it. Create a telegram group. I just selected the name PleasrDAO with a little shiny star emoji. We just started reaching out minimum 10eth contribution. 


06:09 • Jamis
Let’s win. This auction peoples are started in flowing into the chat. I had met my own Conti, at Def con Osaka. I had met Alex van Avik from Nansen. These people just started streaming in and, were even bidding against Andrew Kang and were like, let’s get him in. He damned Andrew and he joined our group and sent us his bid. It was one of those first moments where a DAO formed to win an on chain NFT auction, and very rapidly people saw it as a novel concept, a party bed, ultimately codified that, with a solidity contract. Now you can spin these up on your own with people all across the internet, but no initial mission. There’s just a group of DeFi chads and chaddettes to realize that this is going to be a valuable, cool piece. We’ve just kind of been driving forward ever since. 


07:09 • Tom
I mean, how did you guys get from purchasing? So for those who aren’t aware like the X*Y=K kind of that NFT that Uniswap drop that you guys first bought, I mean, that was pretty cheap at the time. You guys go on and now you’re spending tons of money to purchase the most important NFTs that are in the space. Like, how did you get from, fun kind of Friday night, let’s all pull 10 eth to, we have a real DAO with significant assets. Like how did you go about, organizing and forming roles and really conceptualizing this beyond kind of one buy into something that could be here for decades. 


07:47 • Gmoney
I’ll take that one. I think it, when you get a lot of smart people together and people start thinking about, all right, cool. Like we just want that now, what, and, when we hit that, now what it was, I think it took of time to kind of find our stride and be like, what are we going to do next? What are we going to do next? But, I think initially it was like, all right, well, we’re going to buy the pieces that we think are important and we’re going to figure it out later. Right. Like I, and I think that’s how, some of the best ideas happen like in the world, right. Where it’s like, all right, we did this and we’re gonna figure it out. Like, just be ing part of it from the beginning and watching the organic process that’s happened has been like really awesome, from my, 


08:31 • Jamis
Yeah. That day one where we’ve been, we had to trust Leighton, it sent all of the Ethereum to his wallet to bid. One of the first things we did immediately after was set up a multisig wallet, we had votes, we had a vote in telegram for who should be on the multisig. We sent the NFT into the multisig and the remaining Ethereum. We had Mariano, create a token for us. We distributed that pro-rata, which kind of, is the social contract for saying whatever this collective votes on whatever proposals we put forward. We affirmed the multisig, well, hold up. We started looking at pieces and kind of there were a lot of nos at first and the natural kind of collective ethos rose to the top eventually with Snowden. And, we brought in a bunch of new members at that moment to, pick up the Snowden piece. 


09:28 • Jamis
I think that was kind of the spark that really showed that weren’t just going to buy people pleasrs piece. And, we thought about fractionalizing it, but rather we have something much greater on our hands, but we can build an entire cultural institution a crazy Willy Wonka’s factory of NFTs. 


09:48 • Tom
No, that’s interesting. I mean, Andy, you basically created a project to fractionalize NFTs. On the flip side, you’re in a DAO which has fractionalized members, which is kind of ironic, like what’s your give and take on, I guess the differences of, having somebody fractionalized, NFT and the community they can build versus being part of being a fraction in a community like. 


10:11 • Andy
Yeah. I think it kind of is just like, it’s kind of fun. Cause like you said, I’m hitting both sides of all of this stuff in a weird way. I think what’s fun about PleasrDAO but also hard is it’s a ton of work. Like we spend a lot of time in telegram planning things out, figuring out what are we buying and all of this stuff. It’s funny because I see a lot of people have kind of pushed to me the idea that’s kind of how fractional should function even where it’s like, oh, you’re really cool. A fractional, let me make a PleasrDAO with my friends. I was like, I don’t think you guys get it like Jamis is working his ass off every day where I’m in calls all the time. Like this is not just like some super easy casual thing that everyone does. I think that’s where it makes it really easy for me to see the differences. 


11:00 • Andy
It also is very formative to how I think about fractional in comparison. It’s like, it’s, it really informs a lot of how I want to build things, to make sure that, there is a very lazy, basic way to do these things as opposed to the PleasrDAO style. Because both are good and have their place and I think will be huge. They’re just, they’re kind of different beasts and of themselves. 


11:23 • Tom
Yeah. Like adding an auto create discord when somebody fractionalized something it’s probably a lot more work than people think. 


11:30 • Jamis
Yeah. I think that a lot of like that’s what PleasrDAO sees as a huge value prop or even a premium over traditional art is that you can get people to share in the ownership of it. That inherently creates a sub community of people who rallied around a piece. Like that is so much more powerful than someone putting a replica of a Monet in their house and storing the real thing in a temperature controlled vault. I think we’re going to see a lot of these systems come online for community building around art. You know, it’s been very hard pleasr. DAO is kind of always trying to push towards the forefront and do things first. We’ve, we’ve seen how much work it is to b uild out these communities. That’s what we would like to do is form open these up to the entire world. Bring these back to the people. 


12:28 • Tom
I like that. One more question there just for G like G your you’ve built a brand around the crypto punk you’ve purchased, which is, your singular sole ownership of it. How do you feel being part of a community that owns NFTs instead of frankly, just being a solo owner? Like what’s the give and take on your part there? 


12:47 • Gmoney
Yeah, I mean, I think that you kind of see the value to being part of community by the success of all the profile picture projects. Right. It’s like, I, I, I make, I strongly believe that the reason why he PFPs are worth more than one of ones is because PFPs is like, you just have a larger number of owners so that you have more people talking about it on a more consistent basis. To me, like that makes sense, right? Like owning something, as a collective or as part of a group to me makes more sense long-term than a single ownership. Right. Cause like, I’m only like one person that’s like working on, my punk or whatever, but like within pleasr, like, where we have a group of, I don’t know the exact number right now, but we have something like 80 or 90 members or 74 members that are working towards, pushing that forward. 


13:42 • Gmoney
Right. I just think that’s kind of neat, those of crypto, right. Like instead of, one person owning everything and not necessarily sharing it, like just spreading it out, like, and having, , 


13:57 • Tom
No, I’m totally with you. I’m obviously a huge fan of like member on funds and the move to a DAO. It just makes more sense to embrace the community on the LP side and the sourcing side, I guess, in the coordination process like Jamis, you mentioned that you guys went from, tennies buy-ins to spending millions of dollars on Snowden and the dove and like your Dogen’s day and like these incredible buys, what exactly does coordination look like there? I mean, from the outside not being squeezed out, just seems like if there’s a really expensive sick NFT, you guys are going to be the ones that kind of buy it. 


14:32 • Jamis
Yeah. Coordination is tough. It’s I think that in the future, we’re going to have a lot of small functional, smart contracts to replace a lot of the, manual consensus mechanisms we’re using. But, our stack essentially looks like telegram, low impact decisions with telegram polls and then high impact decisions with snapshot governance. Then, that includes onboarding of new members, which we have typically done around purchasing of new pieces, but we would ultimately like to go towards a rolling basis. It just takes a lot of coordination both internally and, reaching out to individuals. We have, I think I’ve been in seven different, telegram channels with different protocols and platforms engineering teams, because what we’re always, what we’re doing really truly is at the very bleeding edge. A lot of these NFT platforms didn’t have multisigs or DAOs as first class citizens. Like, a week before the auction or 12 hours before the auction, or during the auction, you have to like communicate with your engineering team. 


15:49 • Jamis
Mariano has to write custom contract, transactions to get our bid through. Sarah coordination has been tough, but like, that’s what means you’re doing something very interesting. I think, 


16:03 • Tom
No, I’m with you. I mean, getting under the hood is like super interesting for people that obviously aren’t within PleasrDAO. Like how did you guys come to the realization of, Hey, let’s add some new members here let’s, to, I think, purchase additional pieces. I’m not sure if that was the reason on adding people, but how do you guys go around the idea of adding new members or potentially removing members? 


16:25 • Jamis
Yeah, so we kind of see the token that we hold as a record, like, a representation of ownership within our treasury of assets and the treasury can hold many things, right. It holds NFTs, it also holds Ethereum and USDC, but it could also hold NFT protocol, network tokens. If fractional were to come up with the token, our foundation, if we work to invest in angel investing companies or protocols, we may hold those. The token in and of itself kind of represents the redemption on those underlying assets. We go about getting new members both based on if we feel like there’ll be high contributors or they have a valid opinion. If they also are interested in joining and then we essentially, allow if there some contributions in exchange for the peeps token, which is both a governance, token and representation of our treasury. And that’s been the process thus far. 


17:34 • Tom
That’s cool. That’s awesome. Your G w what’s your like take being within pleaser on a day-to-day basis life like Andy? I know you said it’s like a lot of work and Jamis crushes this stuff, but I guess being a participant or a member, how do. 


17:49 • Andy
You. 


17:49 • Jamis
Feel like being on the. 


17:50 • Andy
Inside? Yeah, I think, there’s a few different parts of it that are cool, fun, frustrating, kind of all of the above. I think one of the things that’s challenging is there’s always a million, like with crypto in general, there’s always a million different ways that you can go at any given point. We have a lot of people who are very active in the DAO who will always know whatever is happening. That’s interesting, or we could do, but we don’t necessarily have a ton of people who are spending a lot of their like day to day time working on those ideas. Trying to appropriately coordinate from the point of ideation to like, okay, how do we actually execute on this thing that we want to do can be very challenging at times. But, and we’re starting to figure that out. I think we’re starting to get better at that. 


18:39 • Andy
That’s just something that was, that takes time to iron the kinks out of, on the other side. Really, really bad-ass you can go ahead, James. 


18:49 • Jamis
No, no, I like that. Keep going. It’s really bad. 


18:51 • Andy
Ass. It’s really bad ass because at the same time, like all of these, I like the things that people come up with and the people we’ve gotten to speak to our people and like ideas and projects that are things that I never in my life imagined that I would be a part of like buying the Wu Tang album and different things like that. Like very good things come out of all these crazy ideas and different, connections that random people on the DAO have. It just can be overwhelming and hard. Sometimes you go out to dinner and you come home and there’s like 500 messages in a telegram chat about whether or not we should be like buying an NFT and what we could do with it and all this other stuff. It just can be a little overwhelming sometimes. 


19:32 • Jamis
Yeah. I mean, I’d like to add, like, DAOs are just in their early nascent stages. I’d like to think of it as like, we are reverse engineering. Hundreds of years of lessons learned from democracy and corporate governance. I am in name only chief pleasing officer. I was elected early on to kind of just run this really flat organization that we had no idea what was going to happen, but I merely direct the river and the current kind of harness our energy. Zero executive power. I think you learn really rapidly, like when you need 30 decisions to be made in a week, if you want to scale and operate efficiently, you’re going to have to build out some governing notebook, some executive function units. I think all of these lessons that we’re learning right now and approaches we’re taking to governance will be hammered out ultimately with composable smart contract out tooling. 


20:35 • Jamis
I’m very excited to see a lot of that come online. The ultimate dream of DAO’s is this naturally coordinating emergent system, and we’re not quite there. Experiencing those pain points and kind of thinking about how to correct them is a lot of, our job right now. 


20:57 • Tom
No, I mean, directing the river to your point and, nailing operations is an unsung hero, right? I mean like herding, the cats is so important for an organization, so I applaud you guys there. 


21:12 • Jamis
Yeah. 


21:12 • Tom
It sounds like a done, are there any crazy like war stories or wild situations you guys got into when you were, purchasing these assets, like maybe dove, maybe Wu Tang, maybe the XYK like anything wild that happened. Cause like these are serious assets that are extremely notable. Like I’m sure the process was pretty colorful. 


21:36 • Jamis
I have a couple of favorite stories. I think my favorite one, I’m wondering if I should talk about that. 


21:46 • Tom
If you’re wondering it’s probably a yes, but legally, no. 


21:50 • Jamis
Yeah, it’s fine. I’m talking about the very end of the Snowden auction. Yeah, I think we can probably leave out names, but still give the idea of what happened. That’s what I was thinking. Yeah, I mean, if you’ve ever been in our chat, for an auction, it is extremely wild and crazy. I’m usually the one running can operations and also physically committing and executing transactions. Those days are, fraught with adrenaline, stress, sweats, euphoria. Were going after our second piece, note him, we had managed to get a ton of eth contributions at a certain valuation from very prominent members and internally, and we thought we had the amount to take down the piece. Ultimately were, we had someone coming out as hard in the auction and you ha I learned very quickly, you need backup plans for your backup plans, but at the time were still, it was just chaotic. 


22:52 • Jamis
And, an individual who has not to be named, we negotiated at, in the 11th hour, we wouldn’t be losing, were losing, we didn’t have enough to bid again and very rapidly. We negotiated, two, roughly $2 million loan. That individual said, okay, boom, beamed into our wallet. With four minutes left, I have to get the quarter coordinating the multisig to create a custom transaction. Cause it couldn’t integrate with foundation. Marianna has to write that the call data, everything submitted. We have to have three people, click accept, execute the transaction with infinite gas. It was like down to 10 seconds and we got that bid in. And luckily that was the final bid. So was an intense Jesus euphoric moment. 


23:49 • Tom
God. Sorry. What would you have to. 


23:50 • Jamis
That’s the snowden NFT. 


23:53 • Tom
Sorry G. 


23:54 • Gmoney
Yeah. To build on that, it’s like, as this is all happening, you have to imagine the rest of us are all also watching from the sidelines and every time to like, okay, like it got sent to the multi-site and be like, yeah, let’s fucking go. Like, it’s like, all right, we sent it in. Like, it’s just like, I don’t know. Like to me, it’s like, I, I still, that’s why I said at the top of the interview that like literally when we’re bidding on something, it’s probably, we have, I’d say we have a better process down now where we are more, we prepare a little better now, but especially in those first couple of auctions, like I’d be out. I look at my phone and I’d be like, wait, like what’s, like we have like 500 messages because we’re trying to coordinate, how to bid on this. 


24:39 • Gmoney
And it’s been really fun. It’s been a really cool, 


24:43 • Jamis
Some of the more fun decisions that, people may just have differing opinions on. That are really heated back and forth, not heated. The lake people divide on lines and everyone discusses. One of which was the token name for the doge NFT. That was pretty much 50. Also we voted on whether to fractionalize snowden first or, the doge. That was like a 0.2 or something percent difference in the outcome of the vote. 


25:16 • Tom
It’s kind of wild tied down in the middle. They are considering how many people are involved. 


25:22 • Jamis
Yeah. Typically it’s more equal. Sorry. Typically it’s more, we find a direction forward and everyone is usually backing behind that. But sometimes, there’s a disagreement. 


25:35 • Tom
Yeah, no, that’s fair. I guess, how do you guys deal with just the sourcing? Right. Like I know Andy kind of alluded to this and Jamis, you may have as well. Like having so many people is like, we have a ton of people within Delphi, right? We love it. G as well knows this. Figuring out how to filter and how to curate is extremely important job. When you have a zillion people involved, how do you guys decide, what to look at, where to spend your time, because, focusing on the loudest person at this square chat might be great, but it might also crowd out people who might have great ideas that might just not be able to pitch. 


26:13 • Andy
Yeah. I think it’s kind of evolved now, as we know those two different versions of sourcing, one of them is there is an auction that is happening right now and we have 24 hours. We just noticed us, do we want to buy it? And that’s like a very different conversation than, Hey, we have this connection who knows this guy who wants to do something that’s extremely interesting. They want us to be, and like that’s something kind of been evolving as pleaser DAO has made bigger purchases and gain a little more prominence where it’s like, Hey, we know this person who is of significance and they want to do a very specific NFT to fundraise for this thing or to help with something. You guys advise them and talk to them. How would this be an NFT that you guys would be interested in buying? Like, that’s a significantly more like time-consuming effort to help them and advise them on what makes us interesting. 


27:13 • Andy
How do you make it fully on chain? How do you like, make it accessible for us to be bidding on it? Cause we can’t necessarily use some of the traditional auction houses or it’s very challenging. Those generally will somehow find their way to some of the more active people. We can typically like set up a call where it’s essentially anyone who’s interested in the DAO, come join this call. We’ll generally try to find someone to take point on that thing and kind of run with it. For the stuff where it’s like, Hey, this auction is ending in 24 hours. What do we want to do? Like an example of that was, like the IIX shells tour piece. I’m pretty sure we found out that was like, I just posted it in the chat. I was like, Hey guys, this is being auctioned off. It’s kind of cool thing. 


27:59 • Andy
I feel like we should be buying this. Were like, all right, shit, we have like 20 hours now to figure out whether or not we want to spend a couple of million dollars on this. Those are typically easier to activate people on. I think one of the things that I’ve learned between like maker and other governance and this only held true with PleasrDAO is once there is like a serious action item on the table of like we have X amount of time to figure out this thing we have to decide. It’s very easy to get everyone in the DAO to come in and participate, give their 2 cents and we’ll take it to a vote. What it’s like this theoretical, Hey, we have this fun idea. We could maybe do this thing, but we need some people to come help. It’s significantly harder to get that initial buy-in because there aren’t immediate action items of, do we want to spend this much money on this thing? Or do we want to fractionalize this thing with these parameters? And that’s definitely, I would say where the challenges come in, some of this like sourcing different things and stuff is that there aren’t necessarily immediate action items in ways to get people involved, like explicitly in voting with their tokens. 


29:04 • Tom
Yeah, no, that’s a really good point. Andy and gee, I wanted to ask you this question. I mean, you have a great sense of frankly went to ape and when not to ape, right. I think you have a really good, view on that, especially early on in drops and mints. How do you kind of, how do you work with your ability to do that, but within pleasr, potentially having to convince people, like, I know there’s like a bit of a give and take there on, let me eat this or let me bring it to that. Like, how do you, I guess, rally the troops, but also, do it in a timely fashion to kind of Andy’s point or has it not come up yet? I mean, it hasn’t come up because generally like, 


29:41 • Gmoney
Especially now, like, the pieces that pleaser will go after or pleases that I pieces that I wouldn’t go after on my own. So, it’s very much, it’s more of, is this something that, let’s say another now that I’m in would be interested in or whatever, and at which point I just kind of reframe from the conversation in both thousand, I let the Dallas figured out and whichever one will want to buy it or go forward. I fully support that as a member of the doubt. 


30:13 • Tom
Cool. Yeah, that makes sense. James, I mean, one of the things, I mean, talk about traditional VC, you invest in sourcing and that’s one thing and more people, the more coordination, but on the flip side, you have your ongoing portfolio company work where you can help, how you could monetize things like that. When you guys are going after like assets like Snowden or doge or Wu Tang, like the album, I’ll leave it to you to answer what you can hear, but are there any plans from the get-go on how you would want to monetize this or use it, or is it very, I’m assuming it’s probably very asset specific because what you can do with one NFT, like doge is very different from what you could potentially do with something like, the Wu Tang album. 


30:55 • Jamis
Very much. Asset specific, I think the dojo, the doge was something that we all from the jump realized like this is the Mona Lisa of the internet. We believe that everyone should be able to have a piece of it. It’s the most iconic image on the internet, arguably, and that kind of was a clear path for us. Whereas something like the Wu Tang album, we understood its importance. And we understood that. It’s the OG physical NFT and step it’s mythos and its history. We also knew that it wouldn’t be easy to a acquire and be, do it right and see, bring it on chain. That is much more of a vague, like timeline and we’re willing to Abe because we know we can do something miraculous with it. Yeah. I think it’s very much so asset specific and we do ideate a lot prior to some of our acquisitions, but we always leave it open to the future for new ideas. 


31:58 • Jamis
We, I think we all see that web three and NFT protocols are being built at a faster clip than we can even ingest the information. There may be a new idea and a new protocol in two weeks from now where that will shift our plans for any given piece. 


32:16 • Tom
Yeah, no, it’s cool that you guys have such a large community, like, G might see an asset you guys have, or Andy might see an asset you guys have. Like they may have like a specific idea on how they want to help champion that, which is also kind of cool too. 


32:30 • Jamis
A lot of ideas dropped in our chat. It’s pretty fun. 


32:35 • Tom
The Wu-Tang album does somebody have to like physically go pick that up from the government? Like, is that like, I don’t want you to like to docs anyone, but like, will a person have to go grab this thing? 


32:45 • Jamis
Or so if you want, you can go to a pleasr.mirror.xyz, which is our blog. We did a, we filmed a little small short documentary on the day that I picked it up. It was really fun. We did not buy it directly from the us government. So, the piece had been transported to a art conservatory, the album case. The CD was in the hands of a lawyer who was handling the deal. That day I, I had three armed guards with me at a filmmaker. I had a lawyer or traveling through a New York city on an Escalade, which it was just a very unique experience. Went to the art, conservator our conservatory and saw the cases, all of what you can see in this, on our blog posts. There’s a video that you can see. Went and listened to the music, which was, or I went and listened to the music and it was pretty transcendent experience. 


33:48 • Jamis
We deposited the CDs into a vault in New York city with the location undisclosed location. 


33:57 • Tom
Damn, that’s pretty cool. I’m sure people want it to go with you at that time. Eddie. I know you would’ve jumped or G if you around. Yeah. 


34:03 • Andy
I am extremely excited to have an opportunity to listen to the album. It’s going to be really cool in general. It’s just, it’s such a, a special thing to have. And, there’s so many interesting quirks around all of it. I’m really excited to see how we kind of bridge the legal challenges and all this stuff of releasing the album and everything. And the interesting stuff we do. First and foremost, I need to hear it for me before we plan anything else. 


34:36 • Jamis
Yeah. I mean, I, oddly I it’s super unfortunate, but that day was really tight, especially cause we had a deadline on depositing. The CD is into the vault and, I didn’t even get to listen to the whole thing. That’s pretty unfortunate, but, that is, it’s a very visceral experience to part with those CDs, right. It’s kind of the ultimate artistic vision that they sought to create that emotion of partying with the music, something that’s been commoditized and everyone takes advantage of, they can stream it on their phones. They decided to go the opposite direction and really bring value and emotion around being in a location to hear some piece of music. It’s definitely an experience I’d like to share with others. 


35:28 • Tom
Yeah, no, it sounds like a Netflix movie where like a small group of people meet in the mountains just to view their art or listen to their music. You guys are that crew, which is kind of interesting. 


35:41 • Jamis
Yeah. That sounds like the beginning of a horror film belt down. 


35:49 • Tom
Yeah, no, that’s fair. That’s. 


35:51 • Jamis
Fair. I think, our plans for the album are extraordinarily in flux and depend on a lot of things. There are no promises, but ultimately we would love the capacity to do, listening tours and have individuals and fans be able to listen to the album. We really would love more than anything to collaborate with Rizza, go the opposite direction of Martin Shkreli and do our best to kind of appease the fans as well as the original artists. It will take some time, so you have to be patient, but, I think we’re going to be able to do a good job. 


36:32 • Tom
Yeah, no, it’s exciting. Well, we’ll definitely do another podcast to discuss that once you guys figure out, the legal sharing side, we’ll save that for another day. One other piece I wanted to talk about before we close out the podcast is just the Edward Snowden. Stayfree NFT. What resonated with this piece that you guys that got you guys so interested? 


36:52 • Andy
Yeah. I think this was one that I was really excited about and, I think that we’ve noticed like the kind of in the same vein as the tour piece as well. We have these very wide reaching scope of NFTs between like doge and then Wu Tang. That’s not even an NFT, but it’s more cultural and it’s more about, there’s some mimetic energy to that Wu Tang album, I would say. When you have these more like the Snowden piece, especially, I think it’s almost paying homage to the fact that we’re able to even enjoy the doge NFT to a certain extent, that’s how I think about it, where like the things that Stoughton has done and the importance of, just like the freedom of the press foundation, where the funds from that sale went. It’s like a important significant part of like the culture of the internet, but in more like the pick and shovel version of what makes it important than the actual like meme on top. 


37:54 • Andy
And, I think that like crypto people are uniquely positioned to really appreciate those things because it’s something that we’re pretty actively like working on and fighting for, relatively, constantly in the crypto space. That, to me just made it like totally clear that it was something that was super important and something that really, it, I think that one probably was like the easiest yes. Vote of everything we’ve tried to buy. Everyone’s just like, yeah, this makes total sense. I think you’d be hard pressed to find a crypto person who wouldn’t be excited to support Snowden and freedom of the press and everything that they’ve pushed for. 


38:30 • Tom
Now, I’m totally with you. 


38:32 • Jamis
I think kind of our approach to what we do and don’t buy is always going to be in flux. I think that Snowden really pushed us towards our collective desire to support meaningful pieces from individuals that have impacted the internet and our freedom to use the internet. Also it started to evolve even further towards people that are iconic class and anti-establishment and rebels individuals that have pushed against systems that they feel are unfair. Underneath that umbrella is kind of, a large portion of our pieces with tour. I am shells, with Snowden, you’ve got one of our latest acquisitions was pussy riots piece. The Wu Tang clan, who better to represent fighting against the system. The Wu Tang clan people pleasrs piece where Uniswap V3 is largely an homage to DeFi summer, which is going to be a contentious, discussion and technology in the next few years. 


39:41 • Jamis
All of these things in one way or another represent the fight that crypto ads, we share that banner of kind of pushing the limits and, making sure that the system is fair. 


39:55 • Andy
Argue that the doge meme fits pretty nicely into that bucket as well. 


40:01 • Tom
No, I’m with you. I’m glad we’re talking about like your top pieces. Cause like we talked about Snowden, we talked about Wu Tang. We talked about XYK we talked about dove. Dove is the only one that you guys did something with, I guess post-purchase so far, right. Like you decide to fractionalize it on fractional? obviously Andy, you’re the founder of fractional, we’re huge fans. How did I guess that discussion, kind of play out, right? Because like there’s a lot that goes into that, right? Like, how much should we fractionalize, should we even do this? Like, what’s our pro-rata reserve price. Could it be with our shards? Like there’s a lot of decision making that goes into that and Jamis, I know you mentioned earlier, sometimes it’s hard to rally the troops, but now we’re getting really specific on things, right? Like we need actual numbers behind these things. 


40:45 • Tom
How do you guys go about figuring that out? Like, is there a task force or how should we think about that? 


40:52 • Jamis
I mean, I think typically we kind of leverage the resources within the DAO. Maybe a specific team is very good at liquidity allocation. Same mechanism has written wonderful blog posts on how to properly target, liquidity. Or you have someone who’s very good at making hilarious videos. Some people please or works with some artists to create a hilarious doge meme video, and then bass jackers comes up with the music. I think that like you generally target task is to take on duties and that can ultimately be like aggregated into a singular vote. If you really need to move quick, you can do a telegram poll. Ultimately, this is a decentralized organization. Let’s say I did not want to fractionalize Dodge and everyone else that the multi-stakeholders are beholden to every decision that we all make collectively. 


41:52 • Tom
I’m totally with you. I guess to close out guys, since we covered a lot, where do you guys envision, I guess I’ll ask each of you individually, I guess shameless, we’ll start with you. We’ll go in and even then G just an order of cameras here, where do you guys envision PleasrDAO going? Like, what is, I know it’s kind of in flux and it was a lot going on, but a couple of years out, what would make you guys like super satisfied to see the end result of PleasrDAO become or not even end result just where it would be in a couple of years it could be log on, go on the discord. You’re like, damn, like, I’m really happy it turned into this. Like what would that be for each of you? 


42:28 • Jamis
I mean, this may be relatively vague, but ultimately I would like it to be the world’s largest on chain cultural institution that is fully decentralized available to the entire world and automated and basically, a museum of impactful, important cultural, iconic pieces. That can branch out in so many different directions, not just a static NFTs, it’s going become a weird Willy Wonka universe of, cultural impact. 


43:11 • Tom
I like that Andy you’re up. 


43:13 • Andy
I think Jamie’s put it pretty well. I generally echo a lot of that. I think to me, please adopt can kind of become this like weird museum on the blockchain of culture and history and the internet. I think one of the things that feels really important to me is that I wanna like make sure that it’s always something that’s fun and like is very lighthearted. I like worry sometimes that it can become easy when these things become when there’s a lot of money on the line and there’s people buying really big things that I can get too serious or all these different things. I think that part of what makes this work and what makes it exciting is that it’s can feel lighthearted and Mimi and fun. I think, wherever we find ourselves in a couple of years, that to me is really important that it’s still has a, like an excited lighthearted energy to it where, cause I think it should, if you’re collecting the most important things on in crypto and the internet, that should be fun and exciting. 


44:21 • Andy
It shouldn’t have to be like some boomers super serious, like, experience. 


44:27 • Tom
M and a road show purchasing NFT for six months. See, what about you? 


44:33 • Gmoney
Yeah, I mean, I generally agree with what, Jamis and Andy said, but to be honest, like I don’t have a clear cut vision of where I see this going in the future, just because, even from the first day it started, that roadmap has changed so much. It’s, and it’s been great, right? Like it’s really, it makes me excited for like the cool and fun things and innovative things that I think we’re going to do because we have a ton of smart people that are really driven. And, I, I think that the one, even though everybody has different backgrounds, I do think the one thing that we all share together is the fact that we want to take crypto forward. Just like everybody in this space right now. And, realizing that one of the ways to do that is by, through culture. Right. Realizing that we’re at a point in time right now where we can start, influencing that culture, and bringing crypto to the masses and just being in a position to do that. 


45:34 • Tom
No, I love your answers. I love keeping it lighthearted. It’s gotta be fun. It gets harder as you guys grow and I love your grand vision Jamison and G kind of how you’re embedding your knowledge as well as extremely important. One question I actually missed that I had for you guys before we go is, we see a ton of doubt tools pop up all around. Right. Obviously, I don’t think we’re at a full fledged, on Shane dash structure yet for a lot of these projects, you guys have literally like the smartest crypto people involved in your DAO, that’s on the bleeding edge of buying the most important art in the world. How far out do you guys think we are from having like the real doubt tooling that you would want? Cause like we have collateral and we have a Gora they’re all fantastic. Like how far away are we from that? Like dream? 


46:21 • Andy
Yeah, it’s a good question. It’s it’s hard. I think we’ve talked internally a lot about experimenting with different DAO tooling, whether it’s, coordinate or any of these different projects. I think of that. I said not something on Twitter, so it’s on in the back of my mind and I think what’s hard is for something like PleasrDAO is we need to be able to move very quickly in certain times where sometimes being fully on like on chain can make that a bit challenging. If all of a sudden you really want to buy something and it costs $5 million and the auction ends up 20 hours and it’s like not on chain, it gets really complicated, really fast. And, and so I think one of the things that I’m excited about is, and James touched on this a bit, is being able to continue to build out these frosted pods of people that are working on things. 


47:13 • Andy
We’re really working a lot on delegating and creating groups that are empowered to focus on and work on particular parts inside of the larger governance body that is PleasrDAO. I don’t know how, I, I think that kind of stuff is being pretty actively worked on, but I’m definitely not an expert in those fields comparatively to like just how unit swap governance works or make her doubt governance works. I do think it has to be a lot more modular than those systems are because it’s a much more like weird style of governance than like how you run a DeFi token project or something. 


47:50 • Jamis
Yeah. I mean, I think that like, web 2.0 startups have at their disposal, like any startup has 80 tools that they leverage and utilize we’re in the very earliest stages of DAO tooling. It’s also very expensive to do anything on chain. There’s going to be an inherent bridge for awhile that requires human trust. I think as these DAOs get far more complex, there need to be executive functioning handed off to units and pods. Julia is Julia Rosenberg’s Orca protocol is working on this right now. I also think NFTs are going to like the infrastructure around NFTs are going to iterate super fast because you can look at the liquid DeFi protocols that individuals built and almost just say, we need that fan of teas as well. Right. One inch of NFT exchanges, we need to be able to leverage against MTS, but there is no clear roadmap for Dallas. 


48:50 • Jamis
It’s going to be trial and error. I think that it’s a infinite landscape to, experiment in. I would I, if anyone needs funding, they should reach out to me. I’d love to see you come to some of these ideas. Yeah, I think Darjeeling is going to be very exciting in the coming years. It’s definitely something we need help with. 


49:15 • Tom
Yeah, no, I I’m glad I asked you guys cause you guys are the experts and you’re obviously leading a very important DAO. Andy, I totally agree with you. I mean, even with our own find, I try not to overthink it. The goal is basically to find the smartest people with the specific knowledge. Cause sometimes you just do a disservice, if you don’t know enough and you slow them down. So I totally agree guys. Well Jane has Annie G money. Thank you so much for coming on. I mean, please, your DAO is obviously has an incredible story from a Uniswap NFT purchase all the way up to Doge Wu Tang Snowden and others. What you’ve done here is really just straight up. Cool. So I appreciate you guys coming on. 


49:55 • Jamis
It’s been a lot of fun. Thanks so much, Tom. Thanks. 


49:57 • Andy
For having us. 

Show Notes: 

(00:00:00) – Introduction.

(00:00:52) – Elevator pitch for PleasrDAO. 

(00:03:01) – The origins of PleasrDAO.

(00:06:20) – Building out an art DAO.

(00:11:50) – Sole ownership vs. owning NFTs as a community. 

(00:13:29) – PleasrDAO’s coordination process.

(00:15:35) – Deciding when to add or remove members.  

(00:17:02) – The challenges as a DAO. 

(00:20:46) – War stories behind collection pieces. 

(00:25:18) – Deciding what to focus on as a DAO. 

(00:30:05) – Planning to monetize assets.

(00:32:16) – The Wu Tang Clan Album.

(00:36:28) – The Edward Snowden NFT. 

(00:39:57) – DAO Operations.

(00:41:51) – The future of PleasrDAO. 

(00:45:50) – How far away is ideal DAO tooling?