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Terra Autumn Series Ep. 5: Orion Money is Bringing Cross-Chain Stablecoin Banking to the Masses

Oct 24, 2021 · 47 min media

By Jose Maria Macedo, and Yan Liberman, CFA, CAIA

Jose Maria Macedo and Yan Liberman sit down with Vol and Sam, co-founders of Orion Money, a cross-chain stablecoin bank built on Terra. Discussed topics include Orion’s features and roadmap, $ORION tokenomics, achieving cross-chain trustless governance and much more!

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Show Notes: 

(00:00:00) – Introduction.

(00:02:53) – Guests’ backgrounds. 

(00:05:54) – The decision to build Orion Money.  

(00:10:17) – An overview of Orion Money. 

(00:14:03) – The roadmap of Orion’s features. 

(00:16:11) – How Orion Saver works. 

(00:17:32) – The traction on Orion Saver thus far.  

(00:19:51) – Bringing Orion Money to other chains.

(00:22:18) – How Orion Yield & Insurance works.

(00:24:28) – How Orion Pay works.

(00:25:44) – The role of $ORN token.

(00:33:49) – How cross-chain governance is achieved for Orion Money.

(00:37:46) – Goals for Orion Money.

(00:41:43) – Details for Orion Money’s IDO. 

(00:43:51) – The impact of crypto on e-commerce. 

(00:45:55) – How people can get involved with Orion Money.

Interview Transcript:

Jose (00:03):

All right guys, this week I’m thrilled to be co-hosting the Delphi Podcast with Yan Liberman, managing partner of Delphi Ventures. We’ll be interviewing Vol and Sam, core contributors to Orion Money. The Orion team are experienced entrepreneurs having previously founded Profitero, an e-commerce business which they grew to 300 employees, over 20 million in [inaudible 00:00:22] and 150 large customers like Amazon, Google, Coca-Cola and many others.

Jose (00:27):

They bring that experience and execution ability to Orion Money, a cross-chain stablecoin bank initially built on Terra money. In this podcast, we explore Vol and Sam’s background, how they got into crypto and their vision for Orion Money. Full disclosure, Delphi Ventures is an investor in Orion money and Delphi Labs is incubating and advising. Guys, thanks very much for joining me today.

Vol (00:48):

Thank you for having us, Jose.

Sam (00:48):

Thank you. Thank you, Jose.

Jose (00:54):

No worries. Before we begin, could you give us a quick background on yourselves and how you got into crypto? Obviously, we met you at the Delphi Hackathon but I’m really curious how you ended up here.

Vol (01:04):

Yeah, absolutely. I can start and Sam will speak about himself. Essentially, Orion Money team comes from the technical startup world as you mentioned. Myself, I’ve worked before at Microsoft and Google before founding Profitero with our technical contributor course in 2010. We grew Profitero from three founders to over 300 employees. A pretty big company essentially in the tech world terms. And then we exited the company last year, and we obviously started to look for a new challenge. I’m in crypto since 2018. When I came across Terra, I really loved the ecosystem and we decided to build our protocol on Terra. And I’m sure Sam can speak about himself as well.

Sam (01:59):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, my timing for crypto is goes back to 2014. I discovered crypto when I was just doing some deep dive into monetary policies and gold silver. I was thinking investing in different mining companies and just Bitcoin came around. So dived in into the whole subject of crypto and was just really fascinated, I bought my first Bitcoin at $200, and then just looked into all the other projects that are out there. Back then there was 200 projects on coin market cap. So really went the one after another and looked at every project, just what they do and invested in repo essentially and then participated in Ethereum ICO.

Sam (02:46):

Then back to 2019 came across Terra, and just got really fascinated with the whole design and concept, the Litepaper. So decided to really be part of the community. I was really surprised that Terra was on discord, they didn’t even have telegram channels. So just really decided to contribute and got a huge group to involve, introduce him to Terra, he got hired as a community manager. And then just helped grow the community and been around every single product launch of Terra. And yet, back in April just came across Orion Money, just really connected with the entire vision and the mission, what the project was about. So decided to jump on this and just went full speed ever since.

Jose (03:38):

That’s awesome. And you’re obviously both pretty successful before Orion Money. Vol, I think you and your CTO or co-founder sold your firm in April 2020. And obviously you Sam, you bought your first Bitcoin at 200, I wish I had done that. It sounds like you probably doing all right. I mean what motivated you both to start another business and what was it about Orion that made you want to do this? And I guess for you Vol, since you weren’t in the crypto industry, was it something you were following already, and what made you want to jump in?

Vol (04:15):

Yeah, that’s definitely a great question. I was following crypto since 2018, but was more kind of on the sidelines, being busy with my previous startup of course. But when we sold Profitero, I got some time to reflect and think about what to do next. There were very few ideas that we could put our developers to work and try to create something new on the technical side. But when I came across Terra, I really liked it for many different things, from the economics, obviously very engaging and growing community. And that it was still very open green space to build big projects.

Vol (05:09):

I think this has really attracted my and course effects and attention from technical perspective. And then actually we have to thank you guys because you organized the Terra Hackathon, and without hackathon we probably would pounder forth and back, should we do a protocol on Terra or not. But this hackathon ever since got accelerated, we put the team of four developers together, have you registered for hackathon. And we developed our [NVP 00:05:42] design in two days or should I say two nights of the hackathon and just put it out there for community to try it and to provide feedback.

Jose (05:55):

That’s awesome. And what about you Sam? I guess, what motivated you? What was it about Orion that kind of… You mentioned before the vision really resonated with you. What was it about it that made you want to go full-time on it? Because I imagine you’ve seen a lot of projects in your time in this space.

Sam (06:09):

Yes, I did for sure. Well first really was the team itself. I mean, I’m kind of coming from the business background too. I started a few start-up myself but I prefer to stay anonymous but just the team itself was amazing and the vision itself, you have this Terra ecosystem that’s so little known around the whole crypto space. And there’s such amazing products that they’re you know already out there, like Anchor Protocol, Mirror protocol. So the entire vision to bring Anchor Protocol to Ethereum, that’s what’s really attracted me, because that’s a really huge TAM, and just decided to join them because of that really, because of those two things.

Jose (07:00):

Okay. And I’m curious you answered it Sam in your introduction. But for Vol was it the case that you came across Terra and then the Orion was the best opportunity to build on Terra or was Orion already in your head, and then you thought Terra was the best platform for it? It sounds like it’s more the former but just [crosstalk 00:07:21].

Vol (07:22):

Yes, exactly. When I came across Terra I was really impressed by the protocols that were launched at the time. It was only Mirror and then Anchor was coming up for launch. And essentially the idea for Orion Money even came up off I saw Anchor launched and Anchor value proposition providing the fixed rate for your stablecoin deposits. But Anchor did it only in USD, and this is how we came up with Orion Money idea. Originally we thought, why not to provide the Anchor rate to everybody outside of Terra ecosystem. Because other stablecoin holders would benefit from it as well to get the stable Anchor rate, and we could design and develop a protocol to bring this rate, to divide their audience essentially democratizing Anchor to all the other blockchains, yeah.

Yan (08:33):

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And just from the perspective of the Terra community obviously, that becomes very beneficial as you’re bring a lot of outside stables into this ecosystem. So I was wondering, and you touched on a bit in terms of the vision and the goal of Orion, but I was hoping you can expand a little bit on that, and potentially touch on some of the different products within the ecosystem that you guys are building out.

Vol (09:04):

Yeah, absolutely. And some of these, I think, I’ll start on this. As I mentioned, our initial vision came to expand Anchor to other blockchains. And this is what we enrolled into hackathon and develop our first NVP solution. But then as we started to collaborate with Terra community, with you guys, and getting feedback from the market, we understood that actually there is even much bigger opportunity.

Vol (09:35):

And that opportunity lies in the future where we see blockchains coming. You can see already that there will be a multichain future, there will be many blockchains that the users will have their assets on. And we positioned Orion Money as the cross-chain stablecoins bank. So essentially that best place in-between all the blockchains that stablecoins depositors can earn high yields by making deposits and getting the yield on their native chain without crossing the bridges and so on. Potentially take loans against their yield or principal, receive or get even higher variable yields from money markets on other chains, again without needing to cross to other protocols.

Vol (10:47):

So this is the Orion yield product that we want to develop early next year, and to have native insurance for Orion Protocol, Orion insurance product. And also very important is we’ve seen stablecoins and crypto expand into the real-life, we plan to develop Orion pay to give ability to our users to use their stablecoins for paying for things in real-life. So potentially bringing debit cards with some integrations and so on. So we see this as essentially complete suite of solutions for the stablecoin holders where they deposit their stablecoins. And they can use it for any anything they need in their life.

Jose (11:45):

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think stablecoins right now are probably crypto’s killer app just in terms of the growth that we’ve seen and how much they’re used. And I think as crypto grows, obviously stablecoins will keep growing. But I also noticed as I introduce people to crypto, obviously they start off with kind of single digit percentage of their net worth in crypto. But over time that gets absorbed and even sort of their cash holdings end up in crypto because they just realized that stablecoins are these hyper useful sellers. That you can send anywhere in the world, you have access to yield on them, you have access to investment opportunities, you get loans very easily. So yeah, that vision definitely resonates with us. Yan, did you want to ask follow-up here?

Yan (12:31):

Yeah. I was going to go into some of these products and potentially just the roadmaps themselves to understand how you’re planning on rolling them out and what strategy is there?

Vol (12:42):

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. As I mentioned, first we’re going to Ethereum because essentially this is where the largest market cap of stablecoins is. Over $100 billion in top stablecoins on Ethereum and we launched already Orion Saver, which is fully working and operational. End users can come to Orion Saver DApp and deposit their stablecoins with literally two, three clicks. And we provide already for USDT, USDC, Thai, BUSD and Franc. 13.5% APY and 16.5 % APY for Rock to USD on Ethereum. And we plan even to increase this APY in the next few weeks.

Vol (13:33):

So that’s already working product on Ethereum. We plan to expand to other protocols, and L2s choose like Polygon. Because we see that Ethereum gas fees start to become a bit of a pain, especially for the retail users. We try to make it as easy, as efficient and as cheap as possible for the users to deposit and then withdraw their savings from Orion Saver. Then the next step would be implementing the full APY levels. So this is when users can save their Orion tokens and earn even higher yield on the Orion Saver. So we plan to implement within probably next month and a half, two months and then potentially going and developing the other products we just spoke about. So Orion yield, Orion insurance and then Orion pay.

Jose (14:39):

That’s awesome. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And so Orion Saver, which is the first product, basically what you’re doing is kind of exploiting the Anchor savings rate to other chains. So bringing that Anchor yield to sort of Ethereum to start with, so that people don’t even have to leave that chain in order to get access to it. How does that product currently work?

Vol (15:00):

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think you gave a very good description. It’s essentially providing Anchor rates to the stablecoin holders on Ethereum, in easy to use and quick way, with literally two three clicks. So the users come to our DApp, they deposit their stablecoins on the Ethereum to Orion Saver Smart Contract. Automatically Orion Saver Smart Contract swaps their Ethereum stablecoins into Rock to UST, and then if Anchor brings it over through the third bridge to Terra Protocol and deposits into Anchor Protocol. So essentially, users never have to leave Ethereum, they deposit their let’s say USDT. And then they get their yield from Anchor Protocol in USDT as well. So in their native currency.

Jose (16:03):

That’s awesome. It makes a lot of sense. And what’s the traction been like so far? Because I know you’ve recently launched your Private Farming which has done pretty well, could you give us an update on that?

Vol (16:13):

Yes, absolutely. Our approach is to get first to them strong product market fit, and then double down on the marketing, and iterate before getting there. So this is why we even put Orion Saver as a proof of concept NVP straight to the market. So by the time we came to the Private Farming in we have several million dollars in deposits. And the Private Farming brought $70 million in deposits within three and a half days. We took that approach for a few reasons.

Vol (16:52):

So first of all, as the new protocol, we wanted to build a core community for Orion Money and with Private Farming we brought over 700 investors into our community, and also jumpstart the TVL for the protocol, so we brought $70 million. Right now Orion Saver TVL stands at around 73, 74 million. And we’re working right now on decreasing the fees for the users to deposit. So we made an announcement a few days ago, that for deposits under $20,000, we’ve developed a feature where it’s much cheaper for the users to deposit those amounts.

Vol (17:42):

And then we plan to fund it with next few weeks to all of the deposits into Orion Saver. Because of course, with the high gas fees and the curves swap fees, the users need to pay for advanced up to around half percent of their deposits for that. And we are trying to make it cheaper for our users so they would not lose this money in advance. And then we’ll expand to Polygon to make it even easier for the retail users to make deposits. And we plan to grow TVL for Orion Saber to billion and beyond that within hopefully next few months.

Jose (18:25):

Very nice. And so you mentioned you’re looking at Polygon, are there any other chains that you’re looking at to sort of bring Orion Money to first?

Vol (18:36):

Yes, of course we’re looking at the Binance Smart Chain, as well as the big place where there are many stablecoins. And also to expand Orion Saver to the Terra platform, to the Terra Protocol as well. We’re looking at several L2s, Polygon seems to be the obvious first step for us because of the large TVL of regular Polygon and low fees and many users already, yeah. And then we’ll see of course what will be next.

Jose (19:11):

How do you mean bring Orion Saver to the Terra platform?

Vol (19:16):

Essentially we built Orion Saver platform with a bit specific for the Terra, because of course the Anchor Protocol is already on Terra. So we need to consider this and we will not be taking any deposits from Anchor. 100% of our deposits are going into Anchor protocol. So we plan to provide value added through enhancing the yields on Terra Orion token. And also using our Orion validator commission on Terra to reward Orion token stakers on the Terra Protocol itself.

Vol (20:04):

So there will be localized versions of Orion Saver on different protocols. The main DApp is still on Ethereum and potentially will be for a while. But there are some interesting developments that we are looking into, like Solana Wormhole, which might allow us to even have the main DApp for Orion Money potentially on Terra. And then leave deposits and withdrawals to other protocols. And for users to deposit from Ethereum directly on Terra or from Polygon, Binance Smart Chain directly on Terra as well. But this is more long-term plans, I would say more like for six, nine, 12 months, depending on the development of Wormhole protocol as well.

Yan (21:03):

Got it. Now, that’s very helpful. And just to touch on another product you mentioned, which is Orion yield and the insurance component. The interesting component there is that, that introduces some variability into the yields themselves and creates an environment where you can provide some diversified strategies. I was wondering if you can expand on that and the plans and a bit on how that model works?

Vol (21:30):

Yes, absolutely. And as you know this products we developed together with you and with your feedback as well. So very thankful for your inputs. The way we see Orion yield, essentially Anchor provides a base rate. So essentially like a flat rate for the money markets on Terra. And we bring this to Ethereum. But of course, this variable rates potential users could earn even more with Orion Money and this is where Orion yield comes into play. We plan to collaborate with other money markets on term, like Mars Protocol, potentially upcoming ApolloDAO and Nexus protocol to generate even higher yields on Terra and essentially export them into other blockchains like Ethereum as well.

Vol (22:32):

And of course, for native insurance, they are looking and learnt a bit from Mars Protocol Litepaper, for the Orion stakers, they will get a share of the revenue, which the protocol earns from Orion yield. And for this share of revenue, they will commit percentage of their tokens to maintaining the insurance coverage for the deposits and interest. Yeah, so this is what we’ll be working probably closer to the end of the year, start next year, and yeah, we plan to develop and launch it then.

Yan (23:27):

Just continuing from there and going through the list of products you guys are planning on providing. I know Orion pay is a bit further down the roadmap. But I was hoping you can touch a bit on that and the long-term vision with that product offering.

Vol (23:43):

Yes, absolutely. Orion pay we think will come as that last part to close the loop. To help stablecoin holders actually use their stablecoins for the payments in real-life. We see already some payment solutions launching or to be aligned soon on Terra. But we want to bring this solution inside the Orion Money Protocol that users would be able to pay with their stablecoins that they deposited into Orion Saver, or Orion yield or even with the interest that they have there.

Vol (24:27):

It’s still too early to say which exactly payment solution we’ll be using for it, but we think that we’ll work with the partners like Prime Trust and potentially others to integrate and to provide this payment solution to the Orion Money users.

Jose (24:49):

Yeah, go ahead.

Yan (24:50):

And just to incorporate the token here is always the sought after part and the integrations and the interactions with all these products and the token are really important both in terms of just how you incentivize growth and the benefits that a token can really offer here. I was wondering, just broadly speaking, the role of the token, and I think it probably makes more sense to touch on its individual role across some of the products we described earlier. So maybe starting with just Orion Saver and how you guys were envisioning that the users who use Orion Saver will interact with the token and the value that brings

Vol (25:36):

Yes, absolutely. We see Orion token being in the center of Orion Money ecosystem. And maybe protocols are saying that but we’ve really tried to integrate Orion token everywhere. And starting with Orion Saver, even before the Orion Saver. So the big statement is that Orion Money Foundation will use all net revenues that the protocol will earn for purchasing Orion tokens on the open market and putting them into the second fund.

Vol (26:13):

So hopefully this already creates incentive for Orion users to stake Orion tokens and to earn the staking rewards. The second organic approach, organic value of the Orion token is that depositors into Orion Saver, they can increase their APY rates by staking Orion tokens. And we have a defined percentage for the users. So let’s say if users hold under 5% they will get let’s say 17% APY on the deposit the stablecoins. If the Orion token is between 5% and 15% of their deposits on Orion Saver, their APY will to increase to let’s say 20%. And then if they have more than 50%, their APY rate will be even higher. So this is one approach.

Vol (27:18):

And the second approach is when users agree to receive their yield in the Orion tokens, they will get even more a bump in their yield and the saving rates. So we see it as a good approach actually really well tested in [CiFi 00:27:39] applications like Celsius and Nexo to motivate users to stake and to hold their protocol tokens. And we want to bring this approach to defy applications. And we think that Orion Saver potentially can do this very well with Orion token. And also other products that we are planning to launch for Orion money, like Orion yields, even Orion insurance, they will provide the revenues into the Orion’s token fund. And even Orion validator on Terra platform, all commission from it will go directly into the stake and fund for Orion tokens.

Yan (28:29):

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think it’s always important something we try and emphasize whenever doing token design. Where you want your token holders and your users to really be aligned in the sense that they’re often one and the same where user benefits with their interaction with the platform by actually owning the token. I think it’s a much more healthy ecosystem rather than it being a bit more mercenary in terms of comparing your users versus the token holders.

Yan (29:00):

And so I guess touching a bit further on the Orion yield and insurance product. How exactly do you imagine the token coming into play there and yeah, the overall model with the Orion yield specifically how that might change and what the motivation is.

Vol (29:25):

And yes, absolutely. So Orion yield product, we think that we’ll be able to leverage the deposits in calibration with Mars Protocol, and other money markets on Terra to essentially increase the yield for the depositors to a bit higher than what we are providing with Orion Saver. May be guarantee 30% or around this and we still need of course to do the calculations of the exact numbers. And then Orion token stakers, they will get that extra from this guaranteed yields, what we’ll make, in collaboration with this money markets, but then anything below this rate will be covered from the Orion token stakers under some agreed percent.

Vol (30:28):

So there is essentially like a win-win for Orion token stakers, they do earn even more rewards and the revenue from the new protocols. But they need to agree to provide a type of native insurance for the interest of the depositors on the Orion Money platform. But of course, we still do need to figure out the details and proportions, the rates, of course, and this is how we approach the rating generally. Even with Orion Saver, we launched it at relatively lower rates than the Anchor Protocol provides, to have some buffer for us to experiment and see how much we need for the bridge crossing and everything, and then we slowly increase those rates once the system is optimized. So if you plan to follow the same approach for the Orion yields and insurance, and you’ll see how this will work out probably earlier next year.

Yan (31:40):

Yeah. And I think that approach makes a lot of sense where you have different types of users with different risk appetites and respective yield expectations and basically contouring the two products to each. You can get a bit more wiggle room where you can leverage their individual appetites and find the sweet spot, and take the space in the middle to provide value to token holders and add to the experimentation that you guys are already doing.

Vol (32:10):

Yes, exactly.

Jose (32:12):

Absolutely. And it builds into this vision of you becoming the stablecoin bank. Where I’m just putting my stablecoins here and trusting that I’m earning this yield. And at the same time that the token you described means that for everyone that has sort of a stablecoin allocation, and Orion becomes sort of the best place for them to park that. They’re also incentivized to own Orion tokens, because that’s the way to maximize sort of the benefit that you get from the platform. There’s quite a nice virtual circle there.

Vol (32:38):

[crosstalk 00:32:38] potential depositors without Orion tokens, acquiring some tokens, staking them, seeing increased yields and then seeing more benefits and becoming bigger holders of the Orion tokens this time. Yes, exactly this is the approach we see and this is what we try to motivate our users to do on the Orion Money platform.

Jose (33:06):

Absolutely. And you mentioned the token has governance rights as well. I’m curious what you see token owners being able to vote on. And also, where is that staking contract going to sit? Because obviously, Orion itself, the code base is sort of going to span several chains, right? It’s already on Ethereum and Terra to start with. But it will span across Polygon next, and then maybe whatever chain you choose to just do next like Solana. So where do you see the staking contract sitting? And how do you achieve, I guess trustless governance in this way?

Vol (33:39):

Yes, that’s a great question. And right now we do not have this clearly or defined in too much detail. But this is the direction that we plan to take this time. So we are planning to move Orion Money Protocol to the DAO structure. For our Orion token stakers they will be able to start proposals, vote on proposals on the Orion Money platform. The way we see that all major decisions will be voted and the core contributors team will slowly step aside and becomes as one of the community organizations working on the Orion Money Protocol.

Vol (34:29):

And essentially we will be creating proposals for new features and having DAO members, Orion stakers vote on those features and to vote then implement them and so on. And then we see potentially community development teams joining this and developing their own features and the Orion stakers voting on those features as well. So this what we see in time probably down the line like in one year, maybe in 18 months. But we’re planning already for this approach.

Vol (35:10):

And then going to the question about where the governance staking will take place. So right now Orion token will initially minted as ERC-20 token and Orion saver is the main DApp on Ethereum. They’ll develop presence on their L2s like Polygon and then Terra, as more either for taking deposits and providing withdraws or customized DApps like it will be on Terra. But we think that this time, it will become easier to have main platform or main DApp on one protocol. And then just being able to cross the bridges to other protocols to pull deposits and provide withdrawals or even provide messaging between different protocols.

Vol (36:07):

We really like the vision of Wormhole. And we are working closely with their team to see how much we’ll be able to develop and plan in future. But potentially this is the approach that we’ll take. Orion Money, we’ll have the main smart contracts on one protocol, and governance on one protocol. And then essentially messaging solution and deposits withdrawal solutions with other protocols this time. Which will be main protocol, it still remains to see. So right now it’s Ethereum, but potentially we might do this on Terra. Because essentially, it’s a home for the money markets that we are collaborating with, already like Anchor Protocol. So yeah, this might be the future.

Jose (37:02):

Very cool. Yeah, that’s super interesting. And I guess where do you see the future of Orion Money. So right now, you’re sort of exploiting the Anchor savings. You’re an engine to export Anchors yield account across different chain. Where do you see yourselves in one year, three years? What do you see people being able to do on Orion, and what are your traction goals as well for this?

Vol (37:29):

Yeah, it’s a great question. And as we just spoke right now, probably in one year, maybe 18 months, this is how we see Orion Money being on the main chain and leveraging some sort of either Wormhole or another developments for the messaging, passing the messages, withdrawals, deposits to other chains. And having Orion pay as essentially breach to the real world for Orion Money users. But looking forward to maybe two or maybe three years, I really liked the idea that Luke, the CTO of Delphi Labs tweeted about, where banks in real-life we’ll be able to hold not only fiat but stablecoins as well.

Vol (38:29):

And we think that Orion Money has the potential to become first of those banks as well. Where we already have the crypto part and hopefully this licensing for different jurisdictions and so on. We might be able to become like your app on the phone. It doesn’t need to be a physical bank. It’s essentially the app on the phone where you can deposit your stablecoins. But you also will be able to deposit fiat, which potentially on the back-end can be immediately converted into stablecoins. So similar to how CHAI payment app works.

Vol (39:11):

From what we see, and I’m sure you’ve witnessed as well, that in our age, the electronic money of the stablecoins, they are much better and much more efficient in passing their value as compared to the fiat currencies. And this is potentially the future that will be open depending on the regulation with the next few years. And we want to be that first or one of the first crypto banks bridging the crypto and real-life world and allowing users to earn high rates on their fiat through stablecoins, then being able to make withdraws, wherever you decide. Either in fiat or in stablecoins, or converted into other assets on withdrawal, having insurance from the protocols, not from government and regulations, but from the protocols that the rule of code, essentially the law of code provides you. So this is very exciting future and this is what we think as the long-term vision for Orion Money.

Jose (40:25):

Yeah, that’s really cool. That’s really compelling. I mean, that’s the vision that we have for Terra as well. UST is Terra’s product, and I think to win you really have to close the loop. So that you never have to leave UST, you to have access to it. People want to spend their money and they want to invest their money, and they should be able to do both by UST. And I think Orion really serves to close that loop where you have the yield opportunities available, in terms of the cross-chain yield opportunities, and then you also once you have Orion pay, the ability to spend that all in one place, which I think is going to be super useful.

Jose (41:00):

And I’m really looking forward to that product existing even just personally. Yeah, there’s a lot to dig into on the question strategy stuff. But I know you’re super focused on the near-term, so I won’t dig into that too much. If people’s interest is piqued from this conversation, I know you have some ideas that are happening soon. Can you maybe give people some details on that and how you’ve chosen to structure those?

Vol (41:26):

Absolutely. From our perspective we’re quite well-known on Terra platform, and by Terra community. But our main target markets lies actually on the Ethereum protocol with over $100 billion in stablecoin market cap being there. So this is why we have work in these two top launch paths on Ethereum, DAO Maker and Polkastarter to promote Orion Money launch on Ethereum. And also to provide as wide as possible access to the crypto users on the Ethereum platform.

Vol (42:09):

So yesterday, we announced the idea of this DAO Maker, today we make an announcement about it on Polkastarter. We will provide more details in the coming days for the participants. But essentially, if you sign up for our social channels, and when you tour how Orion money grows and develops, you will see all the information about this ideas and our upcoming launches. We want to spread the ownership of the Orion token as much as possible and to bring retail users as well as big holders of stablecoins into the Orion Saver. Because we believe that we can provide really great value to both of these groups and essentially bring Anchor Protocol rate to the masses, starting from the Ethereum, at the largest stablecoins hub, but this time to other chains and other protocols.

Jose (43:14):

That’s awesome. Yeah, we’ll definitely put the social links in the show notes as well for people to be able to follow those up. Before we end, I’m curious, you’ve spent 10 years building a very big e-commerce business, you obviously have a lot of experience in e-commerce. Yeah, I’m just curious at a high-level, how do you think about the impact of crypto on e-commerce? And yeah, what do you think the future of e-commerce is with crypto and the interactions between those two industries?

Vol (43:47):

Yes, that’s a great point. And thinking generally, I’m a big believer especially now that crypto will be in all of our areas, probably next three to five years. And then internet area, the e-commerce, online banking and other areas which essentially go through the internet, work through the internet, they will be the first to be impacted in a positive way. And this of course, depends a lot on the regulations.

Vol (44:25):

But e-commerce is probably one of the first that will convert to using cryptocurrencies or stablecoins as the backbone for the payments. And we can see this already, this [inaudible 00:44:40] where they implemented payments in Bitcoin and my view is that the big players like Amazon, and Walmart, and others despite that fake announcement from Litecoin, they’re just sitting on the sidelines and they’re waiting from the regulatory perspective when they can jump in.

Vol (45:04):

From my experience, the crypto market is already big enough for the e-commerce players to be able to monetize their crypto payments, providing crypto payments to their e-commerce retail websites. It’s more question when their legal departments approve for them to implement this. 

Jose (45:55):

Yeah that’s awesome insight there. To wrap it up, is there something you want to say to people that we didn’t cover, and if people’s interests are piqued about Orion, where should they go to learn more?

Vol (46:09):

Yes, first of all please follow and check Orion’s social channels, we are on Twitter, Telegram and Discord. There you will get information about everything that we are doing straight away, as we are posting about it. Also you can participate in the IDOs please mind that IDO launchpads they have their own conditions for their own participation, and they may not be coming directly from us. But they are the conditions to participate. 

And of course once we’re live on Ethereum the token perspective… that will be interesting for you to come and try our solution on the Orion Saver. And one APY levels are live, play with this as well and make deposits and see how much you can earn with Orion Money.

Jose (47:12):

That’s awesome, thanks very much for being here. 

Vol (47:16):

Thank you guys.